Timeline Noah to Christ – A Long Sojourn and a Revised Egyptian Chronology
February 4, 2014
Abimeleck, Abraham and Abimelech (Abimelech I), Amenemhet III = Moses birth pharaoh, Isaac and Abimelech (Abimelech II), Joseph = Imhotep, Judges contemporary with Second intermediate period, King Saul contemporary with Pharaoh Ahmose, Moses = Amenemhet IV, Neferhotep = Exodus Pharaoh, New Kingdom contemporary with United Israel, Sobeknefru = Moses foster mother, Timelines 12th dynasty, 13th dynasty, 17th dynasty, 18th dynasty, 19th dynasty, 3rd dynasty, Abimelech, Abimelek, Abraham, Agag, Agog, Agog II, Ahmose, Alexander the Great, Amalekites, Amelekites, Amenemhet I, Amenemhet III, Apopi II, Babylon, chariots, Chronology, conquered, Cyrus, David, David Down, Djoser, Egypt, Exodus, fall, hatshepsut, Hebrews, Hezekiah, Hoshea, hyksos, imhotep, Isaac, israel, Israelites, Jehoahaz, Jehu, Jeroboam, Jeroboam II, Jerusalem, Joseph, Josiah, Jotham, Judges, Kahmose, King, King David, king Saul, King Solomon, Lechabim, long sojourn, Menes, Mentuhotep, Merneptah, Middle Kingdom, Mizraim, Moller, moses, mud bricks, Narmer, Nebuchadnezzar, Necho II, Neferhotep, new kingdom, Nomarchs, Old Kingdom, parallel dynasties, Pharaoh, Philistine, pyramids, Queen of Sheba, Rameses I, Rameses II, Rehoboam, Samaria, Samuel, Saron II, Sea People, Second intermediate period, Sennacherib, Sequenre, Sesostris III, Shalmaneser III, Shalmaneser V, Shishak, short sojourn, slaves, Sobeknefru, sojourn, Solomon, Stella, Thutmosis I, Thutmosis II, Thutmosis III, Tiglath Pilesser, timeline, tribute, Tutankhamen, Wyatt, Xerxes, Zachariah Leave a comment
Some good ideas to consider that could improve the Revised Chronology of David Down
January 22, 2014
Abimeleck, Abraham and Abimelech (Abimelech I), Amenemhet III = Moses birth pharaoh, Apopi II = Agag, David contemporary with Amenhotep I, Hatshepsut = Queen of Sheba, Isaac and Abimelech (Abimelech II), Joseph = Imhotep, Judges contemporary with Second intermediate period, King Saul contemporary with Pharaoh Ahmose, Lehabim father of the Philistines?, Moses = Amenemhet IV, Neferhotep = Exodus Pharaoh, New Kingdom contemporary with United Israel, Shoshenq I = So, Sobeknefru = Moses foster mother, Thutmosis III = Shishak, Timelines 12th dynasty, 13th dynasty, 17th dynasty, 18th dynasty, 19th dynasty, 3rd dynasty, Abimelech, Abimelek, Abraham, Agag, Agog, Agog II, Ahmose, Alexander the Great, Amalekites, Amelekites, Amenemhet I, Amenemhet III, Apopi II, Babylon, chariots, Chronology, conquered, Cyrus, David, David Down, Djoser, Egypt, Exodus, fall, hatshepsut, Hebrews, Hezekiah, Hoshea, hyksos, imhotep, Isaac, israel, Israelites, Jehoahaz, Jehu, Jeroboam, Jeroboam II, Jerusalem, Joseph, Josiah, Jotham, Judges, Kahmose, King, King David, king Saul, King Solomon, Lechabim, long sojourn, Menes, Mentuhotep, Merneptah, Middle Kingdom, Mizraim, Moller, moses, mud bricks, Narmer, Nebuchadnezzar, Necho II, Neferhotep, new kingdom, Nomarchs, Old Kingdom, parallel dynasties, Pharaoh, Philistine, pyramids, Queen of Sheba, Rameses I, Rameses II, Rehoboam, Samaria, Samuel, Saron II, Sea People, Second intermediate period, Sennacherib, Sequenre, Sesostris III, Shalmaneser III, Shalmaneser V, Shishak, short sojourn, slaves, Sobeknefru, sojourn, Solomon, Stella, Thutmosis I, Thutmosis II, Thutmosis III, Tiglath Pilesser, timeline, tribute, Tutankhamen, Wyatt, Xerxes, Zachariah 1 Comment
The Problem
The interval between Joseph / Jacob entering Egypt and the Exodus of the Israelites lead by Moses was 430 years if the Long Sojourn is correct (215 years if the Short Sojourn is correct).
There is considerable evidence to suggest that Joseph was Imhotep of the third dynasty (vizier to Djoser) and that Moses was born during the co-regency of Sesostris III and Amenemhet III. Moses may have even been Amenemhet IV (he never got to reign alone and suddenly disappeared). Sobeknefru seems to have been the princess who found Moses and raised him as her own. The Exodus Pharaoh is likely to be Neferhotep of the 13th dynasty.
If one adds up the lengths of the reigns of the Pharaohs from the end of Djoser’s reign, when Jacob came to Egypt, to the end of Neferhotep’s reign, when the Exodus took place, even taking into account co-regency and parallel dynasties, it is still considerably more than 430 years even with Down’s revised Egyptian chronology (which is a big improvement on the traditional chronology but still needs refining).
For those who believe Joseph was in 3rd dynasty and Moses was in the 18th dynasty (Wyatt and Moller), there is an even bigger problem; the Israelite sojourn would have lasted a millennium! Wyatt and Moller found and documented numerous artifacts in Egypt. They seem to have found the ‘Real’ or ‘Biblical’ Mt Sinai and the site of the Red Sea crossing and they argue strongly for Joseph being Imhotep. Unfortunately, the chariot wheels that were found strewn across the Red Sea bed were dated to the 18th dynasty causing them to look for Moses in the 18th dynasty. Experts claimed that the chariot did not exist before the Hyksos (the Second Intermediate Period). The Bible says that the Pharaoh pursued the Israelites with his Army and all his chariots which were said to number 600. Maybe the reason that archaeologists have not found a 12th dynasty chariot is because they are all at the bottom of the Red Sea! Further more, the 12th dynasty does not date back as far as was once thought (so it may well have utilized the chariot).
It is much more likely that Moses was born in the 12th dynasty when Amenemhet III was the Pharaoh and some further refinement of the Egyptian Chronology is necessary.
The Pyramid of Amenemhet III, like other 12th dynasty pyramids, was made out of mud bricks (the core at least) and Amenemhet III’s pyramid was the last of the great pyramids to be built. After the Exodus of the Israelites in the 13th dynasty, there were not enough slaves to make pyramids any more!
The exact chronology of the Old Kingdom still needs to be worked out.
The further back we go the harder it gets. Starting with what we do know and working backwards seems to be the best approach.
The evidence points to Joseph in the third dynasty and Moses in the twelfth dynasty. If this is true, then there must still be some errors in the chronology of Egypt’s Old Kingdom.
Were there parallel dynasties in the Old Kingdom?
Have some Nomarchs been mistaken for Pharaohs?
A possible answer
http://duckglow.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/square-pegs-round-holes-the-exodus-and-egyptian-chronology/
The author in this link (above) suggests that dynasties 1, 4 and 6 were consecutive in one part of the country and contemporary with dynasties 2, 3 and 5 which were consecutive in another part of the country.
This would effectively shorten the interval from Djoser to Neferhotep making it around 430 years. But is this right?
This would allow the Egyptian chronology to be fully reconciled with the Bible!! (If Djoser was the Pharaoh of Joseph, Amenemhet III was the pharaoh of Moses Birth, Sobeknefru the princess that adopted Moses and Neferhotep was the Pharoah of the Exodus and the Israelites were enslaved for most of the 12th dynasty and taking the long sojourn to be true)
Another explanation may be that some of the Pharaohs were in fact Nomarchs who were like state leaders as opposed to national leaders who were contemporary with other Pharaohs and hence do not prolong the Egyptian chronology.
Maybe the Nomarchs, the leaders of the 42 Nomes, elected one Nomarch to rule the Upper Egypt and another to rule Lower Egypt. Sometimes the honor of ruling both Upper and Lower Egypt went to the same person. In some cases, the Pharaohs took power by force. This happened at the beginning of the Old, Middle and New Kingdoms and also the beginning of the Second Intermediate Period when the Hyksos invaded Lower Egypt and took charge.
Regarding the other issues raised by this author:
The turmoil at the end of the sixth dynasty was the rebellion of Amenemhet I. He was the vizier of Mentuhotep IV of the 11th dynasty whom he appears to have assassinated. He took over the whole of Egypt (Upper and Lower) giving rise to the 12th dynasty (the Middle Kingdom). It was Amenemhet I who was the pharaoh that was disinclined towards the Israelites and made them slaves.
The turmoil at the end of the 12th dynasty was brought about by Moses going into exile as there was nobody to continue the 12th dynasty after Sobeknefru. The exodus occurred 30 years after the 12th dynasty ended when Neferhotep was the pharaoh, further destablizing Egypt and making it vulnerable invasion by foreigners called the Hyksos (the Shepherd Kings).
There was no first intermediate period (David Down). Dynasties 7-10 were contemporary with other dynasties and do not prolong the Egyptian chronology.
The 12th dynasty arose out of the 11th dynasty which was contemporary with the 6th dynasty.
How does this fit?
If the ‘long sojourn’ is correct then the Biblical dates prior to the Exodus will be approximately 200 years earlier than traditionally thought with the ‘short sojourn.’
The Revised Egyptian Chronology of David Down would then allow Joseph to be aligned with the 3rd dynasty where there is a good match for him; Imhotep, vizier to Djoser.
If Joseph was Imhotep of the 3rd dynasty and Moses was to be Amenemhet IV of the 12th dynasty, where do Mizraim, Abraham and Isaac fit in?
Menes could be a candidate for Mizraim.
Candidates for Abraham’s Abimelech could include Narmer but this is unlikely as he was not a Philistine. Lechabim (Son of Mizraim) may have been the father of the Philistines. Abimilech would then have been a descendent of Lehabim.
Isaac also had an encounter with Abimelech about 90 years later in Philistine territory.
Was this the same Abimelech that Abraham dealt with or was it his son (Benmalech / Abimelech II)?
Joseph was Imhotep, the vizier of Pharaoh Djoser of the 3rd dynasty
Amenemhet I, the first pharaoh of the 12th dynasty, had a different attitude towards the Israelites. The Israelites were forced to make the mud bricks for the 12th dynasty pyramids.
Moses was born during the co-regency of Sesostris III and Amenemhet III in the 12th dynasty [1]
Sobeknefru adopted Moses and raised him as her own. [1]
Moses would have become the next Pharaoh of the 12th dynasty (Amenemhet IV) but had to flee to Midian [1]
Neferhotep of the 13th dynasty was the Exodus Pharaoh [1]
The Second Intermediate Period, when Egypt was ruled by foreign invaders called the Hyksos (the Amelekites of the Bible), was contemporary with the Time of the Judges of Israel [1]
Apopi II was the last king of the Hyksos. Apopi II (Agag of the Bible) was captured by King Saul of Israel after he was driven out of Egypt by Kahmose (last pharaoh of the 17th dynasty) and taken to the prophet Samuel who put him to death.
Ahmose I of the 18th dynasty was a contemporary of King Saul and David. [1]
Amenhotep I, Thutmosis I and Thutmosis II in Egypt were contemporary with King David and King Solomon in Israel. [1]
Hatshepsut was the ‘Queen of Sheba’ who visited Solomon. [1]
Thutmosis III (Shishak) was a contemporary of Jeroboam and Rehoboam and invaded Israel. [1]
Akhenaten was a contemporary of King Jehoash of Israel [1]
King Jehu of Israel was a contemporary of Shalmaneser III to whom he paid tribute [1]
Tutankhamen was a contemporary of King Jehoahaz of Israel [1]
Rameses I was contemporary with King Azariah [1]
Rameses II was contemporary with King Jeroboam II, King Azariah and King Zachariah [1]
King Jotham of Israel was a contemporary with Tiglath Pilesser [1]
Shalmaneser V was contemporary with Hoshea [1]
Samaria was conquered by Saron II of Assyria in 722BC [1]
Sennacherib and Merneptah were contemporary with Hezekiah [1]
Necho II killed Josiah [1]
Nebuchadnezzar conquers Jerusalem in 605BC [1]
Jerusalem was destroyed in 586BC [1]
Babylon conquered 539BC by Cyrus [1]
Xerxes came to rule in 486BC [1]
Alexander the Great came to power in 332BC [1]
Primary Reference
[1] Unwrapping the Pharaohs John Ashton and David Down 2007 Master Books ISBN 13-978-0-89051-468-9 ISBN 10-0-89051-468-2 (see the timeline at the back of the book)
Contemporaries in Egypt and Israel and estimated dates
August 27, 2011
Uncategorized 12th dynasty, 13th dynasty, 15th dynasty, 18th dynasty, 3rd dynasty, 400 years, Abimalech, Abimelech, Abraham, Amenemhet III, Amenhotep I, bible, Chronology, comtemporaries, core, David Down, Djoser, drnhawkins, first dynasty, hatshepsut, hyksos, imhotep, israel, Israelite, Jereboam, Joseph, Joshua, King, Manetho, Menes, Mizraim, moses, mud bricks, Narmer, Neferhotep, Netjerikhet, Pharaoh, Pyramid, Queen of Sheba, Red sea crossing, Saul, slaves, Third dynasty, Thutmosis I, Thutmosis III, Zozer Leave a comment
Date Egypt Israel
2320BC Menes (Mizraim) (1st Dynasty)
2080BC Abimelech (First Dynasty) Abraham
1900BC Djoser (Third Dynasty) Joseph ( Imhotep)
1531BC Amenemhet III (12th Dyn) Moses – Israel slaves
1445BC Neferhotep I (13th Dynasty) Moses (The Exodus)
1405BC Hyksos (15th & 16th Dynasty) Joshua to Saul
1018BC Amenhotep I & Thutmosis I (18th Dyn) King David
950BC Hatshepsut [Queen of Sheba] (18th Dyn) Solomon
929BC Thutmosis III (18th Dynasty) Jereboam
- http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v26/i4/pyramids.asp
- http://josephandisraelinegypt.wordpress.com/feature-article-imhotep-and-joseph-are-the-same-person/
- http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/doesnt-egyptian-chronology-prove-bible-unreliable
- http://home.comcast.net/~r.engle/pafg20.htm#911
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizraim
- http://www.ulcmn.org/Files/Studies/Bible%20Timeline%20Septuagint.pdf
- http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p045c.html
Mizraim identified with Menes (even by Manetho)
August 26, 2011
Uncategorized dynasty 1, Egypt, Manetho, Menes, Mizraim, Pharaoh Leave a comment
http://www.kneelingmedia.org/Clarity-EgyptSyncBible.pdf
http://home.comcast.net/~r.engle/pafg20.htm#911
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizraim
http://www.ulcmn.org/Files/Studies/Bible%20Timeline%20Septuagint.pdf
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p045c.html
http://creation.com/egyptian-history-and-the-biblical-record-a-perfect-match